After being forced to issue a statement once, SK-Gaming has forced us a second time to defend ourselves regarding the Gux situation.
It was with great pride and happiness that we welcomed back an old friend and team mate when we heard Rasmus 'Gux' Stahl rejoined the FnaticMSI herd. But before we could share this happiness with our followers and friends, we were shocked by a news article on the SK-Gaming website, claiming that we have treated them unfairly.
We were forced to reply on this, and we openly documented our open and honest understanding of the situation. However, SK-Gaming once again felt that it was necessary to publicly accuse us of things that are untrue, showing private conversations in public and taking them out of context. Neil Kirk, Business Development Manager of FnaticMSI gave this statement on behalf of the whole FnaticMSI team:
"Once again it would appear that SK-Gaming are happy to air their dirty laundry in public and add fuel to the already burning fire. Earlier today they released an article entitled “the facts and figures behind Gux’s departure”. The title could not be further from “the facts and indeed figures”. As any good journalist knows; there are always two sides to a story, but only one you publish, which you can always twist to ensure maximum controversy and as much of a positive (marketing) spin towards those you wish to protect – in this case SK.
Rasmus did not have a signed contract with SK-Gaming, due to the fact that negotiations were still commencing on the specific terms that were considered unacceptable to Rasmus. Therefore by definition SK cannot claim in any honesty he had a contract. In fact more to the point he was being "persuaded" to sign or potentially not receive payment of his salary. This is morally and professionally wrong.
Rasmus as we all know was booked to fly to Dallas. SK chose to not confirm that they would pay any outstanding salary to Rasmus, plus they would not confirm they would pay him prize money due once they received it. Therefore SK decided not to take Rasmus to Arbalet Cup Dallas. Rasmus was fully prepared to go to Dallas. In this case as we explained earlier we wanted a professional and mutually agreeable situation, with a team whom we have had an amicable relationship with from day one and who are a fellow G7 members. As we stated previously, FnaticMSI has always aimed to do everything exactly by the book and be as professional as possible - we stand by that. We have a consistent record of buying players for fees out of contracts, with Christopher (GeT_RiGhT) and Bjorn (threat) two examples of that.
At this point we (FnaticMSI) offered an option to Rasmus attempting to remove any angle that could be utilised. Our players all offered to donate a fee, plus FnaticMSI also offered to pay equivalent should SK revoke his rights to any further money. This is the money which would have gone to SK should we have bought Gux out of his contract – so it makes sense and benefits all? Unfortunately as expressed in earlier comments it was disappointing to understand that SK had no interest in dealing with FnaticMSI and that left the situation between Rasmus and Alex.
As you can read above we stand by our original statements. If SK-Gaming wish to continue to broadcast what should be private and confidential emails and conversations then that is their choice.
However, FnaticMSI can stand proud knowing that we tried on numerous occasions to deal with this matter professionally, openly and honestly.
This is the final time we (FnaticMSI) will be publically responding to such articles. If SK-Gaming would like to continue any formal discussions then they can do so privately, professionally in the usual manner, which has worked well previously."
Once again it would appear that SK-Gaming are happy to air their dirty laundry in public and add fuel to the already buring fire. Earlier today they released an article entitled “the facts and figures behind Gux’s departure”. The title could not be further from “the facts and indeed figures”. As any good Journalist knows there are always two sides to a story but only one you publish, which you can always twist to ensure maximum controversy and as much of a positive (marketing) spin towards those you wish to protect – in this case SK.
It has been expressed in an earlier post on Fnatic.com by Sam that the team and I really wanted Rasmus back in the line-up for various reasons. We were indeed concerned about SK-Gaming not meeting their commitments towards him financially and ultimately paying him money he was “legally” (in their terms) entitled to, so we (Fnatic) came up with a potential solution. We, the team and the FnaticMSI organization, will donate a portion of the money, may SK Gaming decide not pay the prize money he has earned, by the reason of him not having a documented contract that could be prodcued by either side.
As we stated previously Fnatic has always aimed to do everything exactly by the book and be as professional as possible -–we stand by that. We have a consistant record of buying players for fees out of contracts, with Christopher and Bjorn two examples of that. Regardless of what has been claimed in this situation; firstly we once again stress that Rasmus did not have a signed a contract explicitly with SK-gaming, and was also due to fly to Dallas. In this case as we explained earlier we wanted a professional and mutually agreeable situation, with a team whom we have had an amicable relationship with from day one and who are a fellow G7 member.
In a recent statement Sam also made it very public on certain factors and issues that followed – such as; our players had been chatting with Gux about rejoining and that Gux had no contract; Alex saying he would get back to us and did not; we (Fnatic) were prepared to pay for him if we had to, a nominal fee to show our respect for SK-gaming. However we must point out once again we did state that this deal would only go ahead as long as Alex would agree to pay all outstanding prizemoney owed to Rasmus. In addition to this there was also the issue that he had not received a salary for the previous two months, which meant even if there was a verbal concession of a contract, SK were still in breach of this contract. I’d like to point out something that Fnatic always take pride in doing – paying their players as promised and on time.
Like it or not we did not hear anything back from SK, and were afraid that should Rasmsu travel to Arabalet having no agreement about his salary (or prizemoney) that he would come back even worse off, which I’m sure you would agree regardless of the situation (or even if he remained in SK) was unacceptable.
At this point we (Fnatic) offered an option and remove any angle that could be utilised. Our players all pitched in to donate a fee, whilst fnatic aslo offered to pay for his salary for this month, should SK revoke his rights to any further money. This is the money which would have gone to SK should we have bought Gux out of his contract – so it makes sense and benefits all? Unfortunately as expressed in earlier comments it was disappointing to understand that Sk had no interest in dealing with Fnatic and that left the situation between Rasmus and Alex.
There is no secret at this point that Rasmus did indeed then leave SK an ultimatum stating that either they agree to pay his salary and prizemoney owed, or regretably he would not travel to arabalet. It is a fact that Alex and SK chose the later option, which of course means Rasmus still will lose out.
So as you can read above we stand by our original statements. If SK-Gaming wish to continue to broadcast what should be private and confidential emails and conversations then that is their choice. However Fnatic can stand proud knowing that we tried on numerous occassions to deal with this matter professionally, openly and honestly.
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Cs politics :P
unfair from sk , they are just jelous because GuX left
hopefully this situation will be resolved in short notice and in peace.
Well, just wanted to point out that SK offered quite a bit of proof backing up their statements, and here all you've stated is hearsay. Going to have to say their argument and their record of events is more accurate and details and supported than this. This just seems like Fnatic trying to save face.
This is us having the manner to not post PRIVATE logs and taking them out of context. Believe me, if we wanted to go that low, we could, and we could do it a lot more convincing than SK and without taking things out of context.
Well, is it true you offered to pay Gux 3000 to not play? You didn't address it in this post and I found that most abhorrent of all. The defense of "We could show proof but we won't" on some kind of moral ground isn't really defensible. "SK chose to not confirm that they would pay any outstanding salary to Rasmus, plus they would not confirm they would pay him prize money due once they received it." That part was shown to be truly false by the logs, unless they were forged or there were other conversations negating that. Like I said before, everything in this was already addressed fairly easily in the previous news post by SK and this doesn't offer much in the way of contradiction to that.
the 3000 were offered in case sk denied to pay gux his money dude!!!!
We have already pointed out that we did not pay Gux to not attend Arbalet, but to cover the money SK refuse to pay him, pure to show our good-will. This was all in our previous article, with statements of Sam, dsn and Gux.
You really need something to stand on. This ain't proof. SK posted private logs (yes that's not correct) but that's damn proof. I would love to see some more then this bullcrap... You only give one argument which is that GuX did not receive any salary/bonus/prizemoney because he didn't sign the contract, which is entirely his fault. German law says you can't pay out someone who is not under a legal contract...
Can't believe SK Gaming went where so far, really disgusting. They talk about sportsmanship, but then publish private logs. I also believe there is some kind of law that says that is illegal.
true, that was a bad move from them... True or not, that logs should be private.
that sux :(
I read the entire SK logs and news. Since none of you apparently study law (and I have) , just because a guy "says" he signed a contract, and because he's been loosely operating under the terms of a verbal agreement does NOT make it binding. A contract is only binding if it is physically received. Especially because internet law, rules, regulations, etc are so new there are very few things set in stone here. The way I see it, GuX may have agreed in principle to a deal with SK, but because there was no physical signing, etc of the contract he was under no obligations. Also, this means that SK was not obligated to pay him. Any payment from SK, or playing by GuX was merely in good faith without a signed contract. Therefore, I believe this entire situation is blown out of proportion, maybe even by both sides. It seems though that SK Gaming is trying to spin this back on Fnatic to make them look bad, in the United States, we call this libel. It is unfortunate that two teams have to be in this kind of battle, GuX as a player and person was free to do whatever he wanted - he wanted to join his friends with Fnatic. Since he had no written and legally binding obligations, he was free to do so. End of story. I don't understand what the fuss is about :)
Amen :)
Yeah as they said, either the contract was signed and Fnatic owes SK 3000, or there was no contract and SK doesn't owe Gux anything. Can't have it both ways.
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german law does say posting private chat logs is illegal :)
Richtig, dass kommt noch dazu ;)
I have just one question - do you study GERMAN law? ;) Actually, any german court will judge in favor of Sk Gaming. It does totally look like fnatic wants to save face ....
rule in favour of sk on the basis of what ? chat logs & verbal promises... come on?!>?!
You're telling me German law would rule in favour of SK even though GuX was under no contract? ... be serious please
If Gux was under no contract then not, but they have enough evidence to show, that he did sign it like SK explained in their statement ...
Germany sounds like a f:ed up place.. (no offence)
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+200
Maybe I missunderstand because of my terrible english abilities, but in germany you don't need a signed contract. Just acting according to it and/or a verbal agreement are enough. Gux verbal agree, played for SK Gaming on different tournaments and the venue is germany, because SK is a german company, so in my opinion it's in favour of SK. If this is really verifiable before the court is another question.
SK gaming obviously don`t give a shit about privacy law. All thing considered, Fnatic wins! Welcome GuX! :)
e-sports dramas r funny :) SK are big babys!
if it was to consider in a professional way ... fnatic..should have let Rasmus sign sk s contract .. and go on a legal way of swapping him to fnatic .. in their part of statement fnatic's players are ready to share part of their earning to get back gux into the ....victory lineup :D .. well i say both the sides have equal clause so it was bad move from both the teams ...
what makes you think Fnatic had any say in GuX signing or not signing his contract?
Pretty much what Duran said is how it should be going down, don't really know what all the fuss is about both organizations handled it below par in many different ways.
I'm just gonna copy my comment from SK: If GuX is under contract fnatic have to buy him out and he receives all money owed to him under his contract. If GuX isn't under contract, he is free to leave SK without any penalty and SK owe him nothing. Ignoring the cheap shots at fnatic, that's the legal gist of it I guess. This all should've been finished in private anyway, in my opinion SK are 100% in the right (and I worked for MYM for 2 years, never thought I'd say that), so it's time for GuX/fnatic to choose which option they want and that should be the end of it? - This article clearly says fnatic wants it both ways, that can't happen. Pick one and get this immature mess sorted.
"We could show proof but we won't" haha a pathetic response to SK's article... You could stay quiet instead of writting the worst excuse I've ever seen... fnatic just dropped tenfold in my eyes as an organisation supposedly one of the biggest brands in esports... Its kinda what happened in italy with footballs biggest clubs I've lost all the respect for their management, making LOGS public isn't a big deal and I really don't know why are you making it a big deal... In today's world everyone wants to know what everyone is doing/saying all the time we have this in politics, hollywood, football... Just check the article Fabregas saga on goal.com QUOTES lying all around and those aren't even logs its just the journalists interpretation of what the player says. Fnatic just made even bigger fools out of themselves who can't see that probably never finished school or is just to young to go beyond OMG I LIKE FNATIC MOAR... I like fnatic more but only as a cs team, their organisation is rotten and when you see people like roychez spamming on every site there is "defending" fnatic he doesn't know that his childish comments that don't prove a thing are only hurting them more... Bad for esports what fnatic is doing, making it look totally unprofessional. By the way they put SK in a position that forced them to respond cause they're a big name in esports... with big sponsors and if you check how many teams they have not a small amount of people on the paylist, their reputation was at stake and they CLEARED it with FACTS... Please read this pathetic article of yours again and ask yourself can't you afford to find a decent journalist that can read, your statement proves NOTHING and only makes you believe the SK's side of the story more... That 3k for GuX for not attending is the lowest you can go, bribing a player not to attend an event with a rival team just for the principle of screwing them up... GuX shouldn't whine about any money till he signs a contract and if he does SK should get a 10k compensation, the only mistake SK made is not to give gux an ultimatum to sign the contract on a LAN event, they treated him too much like he was "the one" the bloody NEO of cs that was going to bring them to number 1 again so they subdued to his very childish very elemeNt like acting and just let him wear the SK tag and weat their shirt while he was stalling with his contract and leading everyone by their noses... GuX's immaturity in this is just so unbelivable, as is fnatics move to pounce on him and getting him out of SK in the way that hurts SK the most and makes it cheap for fnatic or free for fnatic... Disgrace for esports
You comparing Fnatic taking on an out of contract (yes, some people dont seem to understand GuX WASNT under contract) to the massive Italian uproar in football through match fixing totally nullifies anything you are triyng to say. You need to stop trolling and really look into whats happened here.
You don't seem to understand that GuX WAS under contract. In Germany even an handshake is enough to make a contract x.x
I've so lost respect for fnatic. immature and Gux looks like a child in this and fnatic acts like his mother. I Lold
On a side note; logs are not facts, as they can easily be edited and taken out of context. Our written statements is as much as a fact as there logs are; both are NOT facts.
THere are no facts, only opinions... Why, in the first place, is there a public discussion like this? What is there to win, from both Fnatic as SK side in doing this in public? Seems to me like this is not between Fnatic and SK, but two very pissed off guys at SK and some staff and players from Fnatic. Isn't an organization bigger than 2 people?
"GuX" u are an asshole :|
In germany at least it's enough, if a contract is concluded verbal and there are witnesses etc. for this. Furthermore by playing for SK on events etc. Gux close the contract just by his conclusive acting. So I think SK is in the right and as a german organisation, the venue for a lawsuit will be in german. But on the other hand, nice to see gux back in fnatic and hope sk will find a good replacement for him. :) PS: German law-commentary translated by google: "For the conclusion of the contract, the principle of freedom of form. Employment contracts can therefore be basically oral, written, express or closed by estoppel."
to be honest... this post is just something you whipped out to save face... you don't provide any proof of any kind in any direction... so we are supposed to trust your word while SK provides proof? you also keep repeating that "SK posted private conversations"... so? I don't see you denying anything that was said in those conversations. I personally don't like SK that much, but in this case I'm very much taking their side and lost all my respect for fnatic at this point. This isn't something a G7 team should do. This is a very clear reason why eSport can't evolve at a proper speed.
this has gone on way longer then needed, lets just look forward to the 2009 fnatic side vs navi at gamegune :)
If I didn't knew, that it would take so long to do, I'd now like to ask all fucking SK hoes to suck my cock from top to bottom in public. :c
Haha this scenario has caused untold amounts of damage to the image of professional esports, considering it involves two of the biggest organisations in the world, to have a public mud slinging contest (More so from SK mind) is shambolic. It seems to me like GuX played both orgs and now they are paying the price, he should be the one being dragged over hot coals in public, not the organisations.
haha roychez you really think they'd edit the logs? Conversations with GuX and everything else looks pretty damn convincing to me... Before you were saying publishing logs is wrong now you're saying the logs are edited... fnatic organisation seems to be made up of liars and foolish ones too
ci.ai.ei spot on...
Both sides handled this extremely poorly despite being two of the elite organizations in esports which is really sad. Neither side comes out looking better than the other and honestly I lost respect for both organizations because the whole situation is childish. All and All though GuX comes out of the whole situation looking really bad.
I read all SK's report on this matter, and what I commented there is the same I'm going to comment here. SK claim that Gux had a contract with them without Gux sending them the signed contract. They claim as proof of the contract a log from a conversation. Yet, you can see a bit of controversy when you see SK claiming that they will pay the money to Gux only when he sends his signed contract, but have Gux has their tam's player. So SK used Gux in many tournaments with him playing without payments. From my point of view Gux was a free agent as there was no legal contract between the 2 parts and so you did very well to bring Gux to Fnatic. Wish you best luck for future tournaments!
Doesnt matter now, welcome back m8 :D
why keep replying to SK? people would of forgotten about it by next week and no one will care
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